indieactivity: How did you get into the film business?
Vince Roth (VR): I use to make costumes of other’s superhero characters, back before it was called cosplay. A company I worked for launched a new product with a superhero character in its marketing campaign. I made a costume of the character and they liked it so much, they started taking me to trade shows to portray the character to promote and sell the new product. I then decided I should do something with a character of my own.
Surge had been in my head for many years and I had a number of friends in the film industry in LA, so we started discussing making a movie about Surge, which resulted in our first movie, Surge of Power: The Stuff of Heroes, a feature film we started in 2003 and finished summer of 2004 then started screening August 2004 in film festivals and comic and sci-fi conventions until it got picked up for distribution that kicked off with a limited theatrical release March 2006.
How did “Surge of Power: Where There’s Smoke” come about?
Vince Roth (VR): This is the 5th Surge of Power movie. Our first movie was an origin story of our title character, Surge, cinema’s first out gay superhero. Surge’s origin is a spoof on the superhero genre, with as many tropes as we could squeeze into 85 minutes. Since then, we have been building a superhero world adding characters, villains and heroes, deepening back stories and developing Surge’s evolution as a hero among a community of other heroes that start to band together. Where There’s Smoke brings us to a point where the overarching story unites some unlikely allies over a common threat to the point where Surge is forming a superhero crime fighting team.
Where There’s Smoke – Official Trailer
How much money did you raise before you started shooting?
Vince Roth (VR): We are self-funded and have not needed to raise money.
How big was the crew?
Vince Roth (VR): There are 252 individual people in the cast and crew of Where There’s Smoke.
What disadvantages were there in the way you shot?
Vince Roth (VR): I have noticed over the years that many indie film crew are not familiar with shooting visual effects intensive movies because most indie filmmakers can’t afford a lot of VFX. “Where There’s Smoke” has a dozen heroes and villains each with their own superpowers and particular needs when shooting. I’ve been doing this for 20 years and know how to shoot for the visual effects, but some camera operators don’t fully get it. Also, to make shooting go quicker, I tend to have 3 cameras going at the same time from 3 different angles.
I’m often in front of the camera portraying Surge, so I can’t see exactly what each cinematographer is capturing. So, I sometimes realize afterward that I don’t get exactly what I wanted. Another disadvantage is with having 3 cameras shooting from 3 different angles, it’s very hard to keep the camera equipment and camera crew completely out of sight of all 3 cameras at the same time. So, I will sometimes like a shot from a particular camera angle where crew and/or equipment can be seen. So, that creates extra work for the VFX designers and extra cost for me to digitally remove people and equipment out of a shot.
How did you cut it?
Vince Roth (VR): We have a professional editor. He’s worked on several Hallmark movies and has the tools and solid experience editing narrative storytelling. Editing is a long process of collaboration with me trafficking shots among our VFX designers as we assemble the movie.
So how much did it actually cost?
Vince Roth (VR): Less than 1 million dollars.
When you finished it on tape did you have a festival strategy?
Vince Roth (VR): Yes, our strategy was and is to focus on film festivals that entertain our genre, like sci-fi, fantasy, action and LGBT film festivals, among some of the more mainstream film festivals. We also have a second audience track – conventions. Because of the nature of our movie, we can screen at comic conventions, sci-fi conventions and fantasy/horror conventions.
We particularly approach festivals and conventions that have played one or more of our previous 4 Surge of Power movies. The strategy seems to be working because while we don’t get accepted to all festivals where we apply, those that do accept Where There’s Smoke seem to love it. We have won 17 awards so far with this movie and we’re only about 6 months in on screening.
Did you get good reviews in film festivals?
Vince Roth (VR): Yes, reviews have been very positive. I can’t say we’ve had any particularly bad reviews. Critics always say something negative or find something wrong with a movie because that’s their job, but reviewers have been overwhelmingly positive about Where There’s Smoke regarding the story structure, the comedy, the celebrity cameos, the acting, the visual effects, etc. I’ve noticed reviewers have had a hard time making negative remarks about Where There’s Smoke because they are finding so many aspects they like about the movie.
One reviewer was struggling hard to be negative but kept making positive remarks throughout his article, which is reassuring because I realize even the most critical acknowledge the charm and quality of our picture and storytelling. Each movie we pull positive quotes from review articles to use for promotion. Our quote list for Where There’s Smoke has 99 positive quotes so far.
So when you got it accepted into film festivals you needed a print?
Vince Roth (VR): No. Film prints are a thing of the past. Indie movies are mostly shot in 4K and when playing in a film festival, the standard format is what’s called a DCP file (“Digital Camera Package”), which is a high-definition proprietary electronic video format used in theaters that George Lucas forced the industry to evolve into when he was releasing his Star Wars prequel trilogy. So, we send a DCP file to the theater that is hosting the film festival, which they ingest into their system to schedule for our showtime.
When did a distributor become involved with top up funds?
Vince Roth (VR): We are self-funded and have not yet needed funding for any of our movies.
Isn’t black and white or stock more expensive? Or didn’t digital come any cheaper than film stock?
Vince Roth (VR): Shooting on film is more expensive, but no one in the indie film arena shoots on film anymore. We shot our first feature film, Surge of Power: The Stuff of Heroes on 35mm film, widescreen Cinemascope, but that was over 20 years ago. Even at that time, indie filmmakers were mostly shooting digital. After George Lucas pushed the film industry to digital with the Star Wars prequel trilogy, there really wasn’t a good reason to shoot on film anymore. All Surge of Power movies since the first have been shot digital. Our second feature, Surge of Power: Revenge of the Sequel, was shot in high definition, 1080p, but everything since then has been shot in 4K, which is the standard now. Any good smartphone can shoot in 4K, and professional camera equipment can easily go to 6K and 8K. So, there’s no reason not to shoot in 4K.
Did you change the film in the editing process, from the point of the screenplay?
Vince Roth (VR): Creative projects often evolve. Most of my movies have changed during the course of filming to flesh out scenes or build the story. However, Where There’s Smoke was so carefully planned out that the movie follows the script. We reordered a couple of scenes during the editing process after playing to test screening audiences to adjust for logic and the audiences’ absorption of the story, but other than those small adjustments, the movie is what we planned.
How was the film received?
Vince Roth (VR): We are delighted Where There’s Smoke has been very well received. I’ve been to most showings and hear the audiences laugh, cheer and gasp throughout the movie, so I know we hit the right beats with the story we wanted to convey.
They’d probably be more accepting now because of independent filmmakers hitting the mainstream with medium budget films?
Vince Roth (VR): Anything below $2 million is considered low budget. We are still in low budget territory. While indie films still have a place in the mainstream, there is a certain threshold of quality that mainstream outlets demand. This limits the number of indie films that can get mainstream distribution. We have some attractive characteristics with the quality of our cinematography and visual effects (we’ve won may “Best VFX” awards) and our celebrities, with household name talent like Nichelle Nichols (the original Lt. Uhura from Star Trek), Lou Ferrigno (The Incredible Hulk), Linda Blair (from the Exorcist movies), and a host of other Star Trek actors and other stars who have played superheroes or prominent sci-fi characters. These elements each have a measure of appeal to distributors. So, we have been fortunate to get distribution including a limited theatrical release for each of our first 2 feature films.
Did you get a theatrical release in the UK and US? How did that do?
Vince Roth (VR): Where There’s Smoke is still screening in film festivals and comic/sci-fi conventions, so it’s not time for a theatrical release yet. Moreover, Where There’s Smoke is written to serve as Act 2 of a larger feature film, so we are likely going to shoot our next adventure as Act 3, then roll Where There’s Smoke and our immediately preceding movie, Surge of Dawn” (which is essentially Act 1) all together as one big, 3 act feature film, Surge of Power: Call of the Champions, and then do a limited theatrical release with that one big story.
Have you made any money from ‘Where There’s Smoke?
Vince Roth (VR): Where There’s Smoke is still screening in film festivals and comic/sci-fi conventions, so it’s not available yet in any paid media form. Our previous 4 Surge of Power movies are available on Vimeo and other streaming outlets, which generate money.
